Originally Posted by kowalski

If the measure is 'what works' in terms of getting some kind of 'close', then you leave yourself open to such arguments. The onus is on you to add rejoinder.

Fact is there are moral questions to be dealt with.

Practically everyone I know is privy to my involvement in this community, my ideas and practices. None of them think it is weird and none of them has ever used it against me. Why? Because I'm just working on free expression of my authentic self.

Can you NLPers and MMers say the same? Talk to your mum, sister, any normal (i.e. non-pu social retard) person about using covert hypnosis to engineer social and sexual situations to your advantage and see how fricken wierd they think it is, same goes for any machivalean, manipulative, under the radar tactics and techniques. I have this discussion with all sorts of people all the time and this shit creeps people out. If it was all normal and fine and cool and good there wouldn't be any need to hide it from friends or family or for it to be done on people covertly or under the radar.

You can live in bad faith and convince yourself that you are enlightened and they are not, or that everyone manipulates everyone else all the time, or all communication is hypnosis, or whatever other argument you want to use to justify your sociopathic behaviour. It is all nonsense.

PUA, and the internets in general, has a lot to answer for in terms of justifying and giving acceptablity to fucked up shit like this.