Ridiculous comparison, no matter what method you use,RJ, mystery or natural game, your still trying to manipulate her into liking you.

No. That is ridiculous.

How is just being, just saying stuff, just expressing yourself without much care what other people's opinions of you are etc. a form of manipulation? It isn't.

The rape argument is sound. If the measure is 'what works' in terms of getting some kind of 'close', then you leave yourself open to such arguments. The onus is on you to add rejoinder.

Fact is there are moral questions to be dealt with.

Practically everyone I know is privy to my involvement in this community, my ideas and practices. None of them think it is weird and none of them has ever used it against me. Why? Because I'm just working on free expression of my authentic self.

Can you NLPers and MMers say the same? Talk to your mum, sister, any normal (i.e. non-pu social retard) person about using covert hypnosis to engineer social and sexual situations to your advantage and see how fricken wierd they think it is, same goes for any machivalean, manipulative, under the radar tactics and techniques. I have this discussion with all sorts of people all the time and this shit creeps people out. If it was all normal and fine and cool and good there wouldn't be any need to hide it from friends or family or for it to be done on people covertly or under the radar.

You can live in bad faith and convince yourself that you are enlightened and they are not, or that everyone manipulates everyone else all the time, or all communication is hypnosis, or whatever other argument you want to use to justify your sociopathic behaviour. It is all nonsense.

PUA, and the internets in general, has a lot to answer for in terms of justifying and giving acceptablity to fucked up shit like this.


Peace,

kowalski

Natural game is learning to communicate powerfully, to manipulate a certain response, A politically correct form of manipulation.

RJ,MM have alot of natural game aspects to them,infact somone could greatly improve there lifes by just focusing on the natural stuff RJ and Mystery teach.

I actually focus mainly on natual game now, being direct is somthing i do more, 2 reasons for this, i have alot more confidence in approaching, this came from using opinion openers that came from MM, so thank you mystery for that, and the other is i got tired of using similar material.

Some people on here just seem to focus on the nagative aspects of RJ,MM, Seems like some people just want to feel superior to others.

i did talk about learning a RJ pattern but i havnt done it yet

Complimenting someone is not manipulation Zone, if you mean it. It is a pure unashamed expression of letting her know what you think of her. You should not being doing it to gain a mere response like 'thanks', far from it, you should not even leave her a chance to respond and carry on the conversation. Complimenting a girl in a direct unashamed manner is letting her know you do not care what anyone thinks and that what you think is all that matters.

lol, I see you've changed the wording of your post after I quoted you.

What are you talking about nova i never said that lol.

Manipulation is deceptive and concealing your true objective and working on people's weaknesses.
So how is being genuine being manipulative? The girl might find you attractive because you are doing certain things like being confident but you're not hiding anything or setting out to work on any weaknesses.

Psychological manipulation is a type of social influence that aims to change the perception or behavior of others.

Have you ever tried to act more confident around women.

Deserves alot of credit as most agree starting the revoulution pua.Dont have an extreme negative of ross. Ain't exactly stomping on guy doesnt seem to sit well bland stuff most probally weakens the perception.

Wish he'd take some shit out! such as "if u where to feel horny debbie " why always debbie belongs in a 80's porn flick maybe. Have material of ross so not stranger to his works. Theres vast amount on ross for example little snippets such as becoming,coming mean homer simpson and everyone has used these

Believe trying to come across as someone who's doing good maybe being little tough on him. But he's not doing himself any favours is he really? On manipulation front... sure alot pua material skirts the issue really so its can of worms ther. Really comes down to responsibilty sure agree.

A gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing.A gun in the hands of a good man is no threat..

That's only your perception.

As with the other thread a while back, I'm not going to continue to discuss this with you until you fulfill the burden of rejoinder on the points I have alreay posted.


Peace,

kowalski