I think we lean more towards natural here but any forum you go on I think you're going to get differing opinions and people won't agree. You can either debate or choose to say everyone is valid and not allow people to probe your views or the views of other people.

As for the flag, there is very little air resistance on the moon so when the astronauts put the flag in the moon the momentum from that took a lot longer to stabilize than it would have within an atmosphere

agreed blanca!
i remember seeing that episode of louis theroux's weird weekends and i recall even louis thinking it wouldnt work in england

The views on learning, The guys that will get involved in this community, may have very different problems, the end goal might be the same, but they can start from very different places.

Quick example, guy that gets attraction easy but cant pull the tigger, or guy that just cant get attraction,but has lots of female friends, There could be a very large variety of reasons why someone isint getting success.

Natural game is the best way, something i aim more towards, but without my experimenting with material from DD/MM, i would never have reached the understanding i have now, for some people i believe that level of understanding is essential if they want to have success in this area, so they understand why something works and doesnt work, ands its not necessary something that can be expressed in words, its like something that clicks inside you.

There is no point saying to someone dont use canned material or routines cause its fake and cheesy and wont work, canned material definitely can work, am coming away from that because i was starting to get bored using the same kind of thing, the point here is, i didnt need anybody else telling me what to do, i learnt this for myself, i reached a level of understanding and confidence that only came from actually experimenting and trying this stuff out, which allowed me to take a more natural route.

I see people on here getting attacked for using MM, Some people gotta learn the hard way, so i say let them. Give advice but make sure you understand the problem.

Fair play for addressing the point properly Zone. This is an issue I do wonder about a lot. There was a thread last week where someone was asking - 'where do I start?' I am at a loss in which direction to push someone in this postion at times. I am reluctant to advise MM, purely because it felt wrong for me and got me very few results, but at the same time it took me a lot of experimentation to get the point where it 'clicked' as you say. I feel the sooner a newbie realises it's not what you say that matters, it's how you behave, the better. I do wonder if MM stalls this revelation however.

My view on this.... Some people use this without even knowing it... i dont think using it how ross uses it would work in the uk but it is undeniable it can and does work if used a certain way. Using your language to promote a response is CRUCIAL

ie lets say ur asking a girl to come to your house here are how these 2 scenarios work

YOU: Wanna come do mine ??
HER: i dont know i should probly get home,
YOU: Why NOT
HER: coz i have work tomorow
COME ON IT WILL BE FUN
HER: No im gonna go

number 2

Wanna come to mine
I really shouldnt
Yeah... YOU PROBABLY SHOULDT (said as in we both know you shouldnt but you will)

Or You probly shoulnt actually.. to which she will reply .. WHY NOT

ive done it so much, its the same convo said differently.

Plus you can use comfort patterns to make a girl feel comfortable with you before just being yourself or whatever