I assume you are refering to me never being comfortable using canned lines when we both first discovered all this game malarky. Well all I can say is it pretty much got you or me nowhere using canned lines. We did it for well over a year and I think in the grand scheme of things (last 2-3 yrs) we had very little to show for our troubles. We thought sheer desensitisation and conversational exposure to loads of hotties was the answer. But this never rid me of any of my approach anxiety.

I couldn't approach using canned stuff it felt weird and 'unnatural'. Natural stuff relieved a lot of the AA I had because I realised I didn't need to memorise a bunch of random crap.

In some ways you could look at some topics of conversation as routine because you have talked about it before (your job for example). I think this is different though as you are talking about yourself or being truthful and you can't have an original conversation everytime you talk to someone.

No, you don't. Well put Tom. As you say using canned lines is a way of hiding. "It wasn't me that got rejected, it was that opener it doesn't work". If you are doing this, you are not approaching women, your alter-ego is. Like Ali G, which is cool - if you are a character actor.

Indeed. Also, you are talking about those things because they interest you and are appropriate within the context of the conversation you are having. You are connecting through a real-time 2way interaction with another human being. Not as a DHV, to initiate kino, to qualify or any of that stuff.

I love talking to X-Factor Chris about all this stuff, in fact I just love X-Factor Chris whatever he is doing. Like many others, he and Steve went down the whole scripted and tactical route before meeting you, me and Jynx. What is awesome about Chris (and you too nova) is that he fully recognises that it was a total waste of time and that he still finds it equally hard to meet girls by being himself as he did before doing all that. It essentially got him nowhere. The only thing he got out of it was meeting Steve and eventually us. His honesty about it is awesome. He regularly starts his anecdotes with statements like "Back when I used to con girls into believing that I was cool and interesting ...", which makes me piss myself everytime. Love the guy.

Much respect to you too nova for being comfortable enough to admit that you wasted so much of your time and effort on this. Kudos.


Peace,

kowalski

Has anyone had any thoughts of a middle ground here? i.e. a well practiced story about something that has actually happened to you... still leading (i.e. holidays, traveling, work, exgirlfriend troubles, etc)

Does that come under the same umbrella as canned (not real, not true) material?

Yeah MB, I think that is the kind of stuff Tom is alluding to when he mentioned talking about work.

For me these things are usually around stupid little theories I have. For example if I'm ever called out for taking drugs because I value my mind and they damage it I'll trot out my fun little theory on the subject which goes something like this:
"Thing is ... do you ever watch Attenborough shows and you see the wildebeast or some such stampeding across some desert plain? Yeah, the lions or whatever their natural fucking predator is hunts that shit down and they pick off the weak, lame and slow beasts around the back of the herd. It's good ol' Limpy Bob that gets it. That shit actually IMPROVES the speed and efficiency of the herd, cause the herd becomes faster and more streamlined. FUCK YEAH! I feel like getting smarter! Lets hit some sambucas and wipe out some more of our brains' dead weight."

(I'm not actually stupid enough to believe that by the way. I just like think it is fun. Sometimes I may pretend I believe it for a bit just for giggles, but will admit I don't after a bit.)

Right. Now that will come out in a whole series of ways, it isn't repeated word for word or anything. More importantly though - Why is it natural and authentic when a scripted routine isn't? Purpose. The purpose of me saying that is, it is appropriate to the conversation at the time and it is fun for me. There is absolutely no forethought in it i just blurt it out, so at a deeper level it is really for no reason (unless I've been asked a more difficult question and have thought more about the answer before replying). The purpose of a routine, on the other hand, is to raise or lower someone's value, to qualify or disqualify you or the other, to initiate kino, to get or hold attention or to achieve some other kind of reaction or manipulate peoples feelings and opinions about me or themselves in some way.

So I'm just talking to people the same way I've always done. Whereas someone employing tactical social manouvers (s/p?), whether using pre-scripted stuff or making it up on the fly, is doing something entirely different.

The only time I really consider my speech at a level where social manipulation is taking place is in my professional life. At work they pay for a Dialler Manager and they want a Dialler Manager. They want me as that Dialler Manager. So they want me to be myself except where that clashes with being a Dialler Manager, at those moments, where the two clash, they are paying me to do what a Dialler Manager would do and not what kowalski would do. And, I will do and say whatever it takes to achieve the desired outcome appropriate for a Dialler Manager to want to achieve at that moment in that situation. I have so many relationships at work that, from a kowalski perspective, are total bullshit. I literally hate some of the people I work with, how they operate, what they stand for etc., but I am professional enough to go beyond that and continually change my communication style till I find the one that, for each individual I interact with, gets them to behave in ways that assist me in achieving my goals as a Dialler Manager and the overall goals of the business.

At work the rules are different. I sell my soul. We all do.

(Went a bit off topic there, still it is interesting shit to me how that whole thing works. For more on the this Sartrean idea read the passages about the waiter here - Sincerity - in fact it is a pretty good and not especially long article with some other really neat Sartrean exmaples of bad faith so just read the whole thing it's full of good shit.)

Peace,

kowalski

I think that depends, If you sit down and plan out your story and try to wedge it into conversations then you could say it's canned but if someone starts talking about holidays and you have a story about something which happened to you on holiday then that's not. You may have told it 1000's of times before but it happened what else are you going to do? Keep quiet?

A point relating to what Tom said. Start thinking about why you are wanting to tell a particular story and how this is coming across to the girl. If you are doing it to try and impress her, she'll be able to pick-up on this behaviour and attraction will be lost. If on the other hand she senses you are being honest with her, and more importantly yourself, attraction will more than likely increase.

Tell a few girls some stories, tell them what's on your mind, just see what they will let you 'get away with'. You'll learn so much more than reeling off the same old lines that 'worked' for someone else one time.

Yeah its a tough one,

I believe that pretty much everyone has to start with some form of scripted routine to get the ball rolling and get used to interacting with strangers.

However the problem I had was that I couldnt get enough of routines. I got some success with them so believed them to work.Therefore very difficult to stop. As a manchild, when I had stabilisers I remember my dad taking them off and me thinking " why the hell you doing that!! i was doing alright as I was, now your making things more difficult than they need to be!!!"

My attitude was the same with routines. I was quite happy to keep the stabilisers on but as a result I receeded into a very plain one dimensional character. I WAS A ROUTINE CRACK ADDICT NEEDING TO SCORE ROUTINES IN EVERY INTERACTION ARGGG

I remember my very first forays into PU and I set about gaming (i hate that term ) a rather attractive female co-worker. I had a plan to snare her in two months but paniked becuase Id used up 3/4s of all my routines in one day!!! I would panic in ensuing interactions like someone on finders keepers trying to locate a routine I hadnt used. "ARGHH FUCK, IVE USED THAT LITTLE SISTER ONE TWICE NOW, WE VE ALREADY ARRANGE TO TRAVEL THROUGH TIME AND SHES GOT A MAJOR COMPLEX ABOUT HER NOSE!!!!!!!!!!!" It was pretty bad shit man.

The problem came to a head when I was on Kos island. I was pretty sick at dishing out those negs making people feel inferior and snaring them. But for the most part it was a losing battle. Its all well and good attracting women at nighttime but then next day when id see people about in a less electrifing envionment, id struggle becuase id used up all my routines or worse use the same routines on the same girl or EVEN worse than that, use the same routine on different girls and becuase of the dynamics of the resort, they relay to each other that some guy with a bandanna told her hed make her his little sister "oh really, hed told me that too"

Or chatting up some barmade using stupid DHV stories that id made up about my ex girlfriend who was a stripper (though shed prefered erotic dancer) and sleeping with her on that basis. I felt like a conman as opposed to anything worthwhile.

Or being sat drinking at bar and being approached by a decent girl in a freindly manner and responding by going "Im far too toxic for you sweetheart" and her looking at me in an angry and confused manner.

IT MADE ME WIERD!!!

I blew out nearly a whole resort with routines. For every girl who thaught I was alright, another 6 would think I was strange,

It didnt flourish, I became even more limited and stifled creativly as a result.

Thankfully I did drop the routines but it was tough. But how can one operate purly using prescripted gambits? Sooner or later in any interaction your actual personalltiy is going to be exposed. Its ineveitable

So I would say let your personality fourish, drop the routines as soon as you get used to interacting with strangers.

Free of routines I feel so much more fluid and free. Ive basically given myself an unlimited range of spontanous creativity to work with backed with confidence and decent inner beliefs. I reckon I could return to that resort and do so much better by just being my normal self

Great post X factor Chris.

Chris you are as awesome and funny in text form as you are in real life. When I'm reading your post I'm hearing and seeing it told with your voice and mannerisms.

You got me giggling from here:
I was then pissing myself at this bit:

Then you followed up with this gem:
Funny bastard.

There are too many people in this thing that because of the time and effort they have invested in being a creepy pick-up weirdo won't ever admit that routines fuck you up and make you less happy the more success you get with them.

Beautifully put.

Your frank honesty and openness will definitely help others here and will serve you well in your whole life.

How's that for feeding your ego? xxx


Peace,

kowalski