Tomorrow, I am going to ask my manager for a chat about my future career and goals and aspirations etc... The real reason is cos i wana pay rise.

How do I go about asking for one? Any tips or help for this?

I work in an internal sales office, but he has mentioned before he wants me to become external sales manager OR a product manager or something in the future... its a manufacturing business for the aerospace military and other similar industries...

I started out as an apprentice, finished my entire apprenticeship scheme, and my HND will be finished in june, they also want me to goto do business degree in september which they paying for and let me have day release to do it...

I'm never that good at talking to managers for pay rises etc

Generally companies like people with "big ideas" and how you would improve things if you were given the opportunity, so lay that kind of stuff on thick. Also in most companies pay is related to job title so by encouraging you to move roles your manager might actually already be paving the way for you get a rise.

Depending on how big your balls are you could also play the in-demand card a little by letting them catch you surfing a jobs website occasionally, dont hold me responsible for the outcome of that one though.

First identify you are paid less than the going rate for your position-- go on a few jobsites and find jobs similair to yours and print them off

sit down with your boss (somone that can actually make a decision and isnt a middleman/yes man - bypass those)

Tell him how long youve been there and what youve accomplished, tell him you are ambitious and want to move forward in the company.
also tell him you feel underalued and are financially struggling -- show him the adverts for your current position and the higher salaries.

most bosses will want some form of deal for giving you more money so be prepared to take on more responsibility

if he says no-- take on board his reasons and then take action

your boss will not lie awake at night worrying that he isnt paying you enough-- if you dont step up you wont ever get more money.

there are always exceptions tho, like my best pal who works for Sony writing Physics Engines and artificial intelligence for PS3 games, another huge american games company saw how good ths stuff he was writing and became very interested in him-- sony promptly marched him into their office and gave him a 12k payrise with some extra benefits. -- my friend didnt even expect it..nice surprise

I'm abit unsure on how to word things to him. I always wonder how I should have the tonality in my voice. I don't want to condescend him and make him feel lower. I don't want to come across as pussy either.

I have read before that you should NOT drag in your personal financial issues to asking for a rise, because it makes you look weak etc.. ?

Also, I've read before that you should NOT take in other job adverts with salaries (can't remember why not though, I was just googling "how to ask for a pay rise" at work.

I'm not making the decision not to do those things, I'm just curious if I should or not. Perhaps my insides are trying to protect my job, even though I shouldn't be worried about it cos it ain't like anything bad will come from it.

I do like the place I work, I do look for improvements and suggest them, and help out as much as possible, I just want more cash.

I did somthing to that effect and wether its right or wrong its got me driving round in a new 30k bmw

just deal in the truth, if you are financially fucked tell him, if not dont lie
employers respect honesty and see enough bullshit day to day to see through it if you lie

I live at home with parents on 13.5k before tax. I'm not FUCKED but I can't afford a mortgage even if I had a great wacking deposit. Nor can I afford to rent..

The dude who I've got to talk to about it is manager of the external sales guys.. he's mentioned in chat when he offered me the job back in Sept 2010 that he'd like me to progress in a few YEARS to external sales or product manager..

When he offered me the job he gave me a rise from about 12.5k (I was on hourly rate back then) to now 13.5k (salary)... I'm just not sure if its too soon

Yeah don't drag your personal issues into it, very bad form.

I agree with everything Reflex said originally, but personally I would want to walk into the room with other options up my sleeve already rather than wait. I'd go so far as to hold off until you do. Doesn't mean I'd swagger in and say I've got a better offer, beat it or I'm off...it's more like the knowledge that you have options, which will infuse the way you communicate. It's about mutual respect. More like: I love working here, I am ambitious and want to progress my career, how can I progress?...etc

I don't know if you're already aware of this little truism, but it's very, very important: the key to any negotiation in life, is having the freedom to be able to say no and walk away. You can't fake that.

PS

Thanks for the input PostScript... I don't currently have other options, but in a month's time I will have completed my HND, which should help.

Luckily for me, I have paid off pretty much all my debts I had, so I am financially quite free of things, my biggest outgoing being my car.

Perhaps I should hold off for a while then.
It just pissed me off today when my college mate swaggers in now he is gettin 30k after tax and younger than me, and less qualified than me !!! I try not to let it bother me but, it does.

I need to take a good think rather than waltz in tomorrow without other options.

(similar to reflex's answer) My plan would be as follows, all to be done in a positive way:

1) Make an appointment/specific time to sit down and review your performance and talk about your future.

2) Discuss your strengths, ambitions and desire to stay with the company, ask for opinions your current and past performance, where you've made progress ect.

3) Discuss exactly how you move forward, what you need to do to improve and areas you can take further responsibility. Set goals, targets ect.

4) Ask what potential to earn the company offers in the long term and how far they could take you, then start talking about the same in the short term. Finish with a timescale or completable target to reach which will offer your next payrise, prefferably make it easy so in a few weeks you can get your rise.

5) Thank him for time and explain it has been very beneficial to you and you hope to be able to have more performance reviews in the future ect. Go through process again as soon as you reach target/timescale.

I think going in asking straight up for a rise is difficult unless you have options to go elsewhere or a specific reason for it, but you should put in an agreed process whereby you are reimbursed as you progress and reach targets.

As others have said - Find out about the wage structure, is it even possible for them to pay you more in your current role or will you need to be promoted? Make sure you are speaking with someone who has control over a wage budget and that they still have room to spend.

Some good advice already about finding out your market value. Also, find out how much your peers at work get paid. Are you better than them and get paid less? If so, refuse to work for less than your peers. That is basic.

When it is time for more money I create a value based argument. I find out in money how much value I generate for the company. I identify all my innovations and the increased value they generate. I calculate how much more productive than my peers I am and the value that generates. Then, I get together my best new ideas that I really want to work on and how much additional value they will generate. I decide how much money I want as a percentage of the additional value I generate and then go tell my boss.

It is all about revenue and if you are increasing theirs revenue they will increase yours, capitalism is so simple a model.


Peace,

kowalski