Was having a stoned discussion with a friend last night and he put forward the following argument/question for having no control over anything:

If our universe and every variable possible within it was cloned and both were run simultaneously would both run exactly the same or would they have different outcomes, he then went on to say that if you believe that they would run exactly the same it proves you have no control, therefore fate is exists.....

I have feeling this argument is heavily flawed somewhere, but can't seem to put my finger on where, I know some of you out there love this shit, so if you have an opinion feel free to share it.

I dont believe in Fate i see people refering to Fate as weak/lazy people who are incapable of taking responsibilty for their own lives and instead pacify themselves that their inaction will create the desired result

Most likely. If you mean cloned to the fact that every single atom that made up the universe was arranged in the exact same way, then theoretically it should run the same.

Gotta love conversations while baked

I don't know that this is the same discussion, exactly, darkie.



How about ...

Firstly, chaos theory says that the physical worlds themselves wouldn't behave in the same way but chaos theory does not create a gap for free-will. This is important.

Your friend has made a mistake in thinking that if the two worlds played out identically that this would in some way slice-off free-will using an Occam's razor type move. It would take more than the fact that you would behave the same way when confronted with the exact same circumstances, to show a lack of free-will. You are you at that time in both scenarios, the world is the world at that time in both scenarios. To say that you would choose differently in one than in the other would be more appropriate to use as an argument against free-will and toward randomness, than to use its opposite (that both worlds play out the same) as an argument to prove determinism over free-will. Only if you behaved differently in the two worlds would the argument bear any weight on the validity of free-will.


You understand that - of course I behave exactly the same way, I am me the situation is the situation, I make a choice, that choice is based on who I am and what the situation is. Therefore, the choice will be the same and so will the outcome and on and on like this - the two worlds playing out the same is harmonious with the existence of free-will.


Peace,

kowalski