How to be a moral pick up artist - Pick-up Artist Forum

Summer Junky · **How to be a moral pick up artist -** 06-03-2010, 02:00 PM

Carrying on from my thread 'Ermm' in the field reports section. I don't know how to transfer posts cos I'm not that clever.

So, the current debate is how immoral it is to have your evil way with a fair maiden that is already taken by a fellow geeza. Oh, and the value of relationships kind of ties in there too I think. I'll be back later cos I've got a load of work that I should be doing.

kowalski · 07-03-2010, 05:15 AM

I've abridged some of the posts I've copied over from the other thread to only include points that are relevant, that progress the discussion and to reduce repetition. If anyone thinks I have discluded something pertinent in this process, PM me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

... what interests me is some of the same guys who were saying don't mess with married women on [one] thread recently are encouraging SJ to get into a girl with a boyfriend. Seriously!

Morally I don't see the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summer Junky

I think there is a difference, depending on how much you value marriage I suppose. People get into relationships knowing full well that they're not intending to spend the rest of their lives together. When you get married that's the deal.

That's not to say that I don't agree with what your'e saying Kowalski, cos actually I do. If as she says they have a good thing going on and they do love each other, I can assure you I would not go any where near that. Unfortunately for me I have a conscience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

SJ, everything ends. Finity does not mean reduced value.

Morally you have two people who have made an agreement of exclusivity. Whether they intend permanence, which is something they can't have irrespective of their intention, or not is immaterial.

Say I'm in contract with Sky TV for a year and with BT for life. Is there any difference if I breach both contracts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by legend

Let me explain my position ... I too don't have the intention of making out wit a girl in a relationship. When I say back burner, I meant to say in a 'friendly' kinda way. I don't see anything wrong with that. The friendly weekly text of saying hello or hanging out now and again for a coffee and a chat. I have a very special hot friend who is happily married and now heavily pregnant. We have lunch together everyday. I remember approaching her 1 lunch time last year. We chatted for 1 hr. She gave me her number altho she told me she is married. Nothing else gonna happen whilst she's married, we just enjoy each other's company...!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hustler25

I guess for me it depends on your intentions, if you know a girl is married/in a serious relationship and all you want to do is fuck her and then forget her for me that is wrong. Because your brief selfish act can be potentially destructive having long-term implications on the girl and indirectly on the guy she's with.

However I think if you genuinely like the girl and you seek a longer term investment with her and if you feel/know she likes you back then I find that more understandable to pursue. Think about it, many relationships become routine and stale after a while, the spark has gone and their relationship merely exists rather than living it to the full. That is sad. By perhaps getting involved with her whilst being mindful and respectful of her own moral dilemma allowing her to become accustomed and associated with you at her own pace is the possibly the best way to handle it.

There is no pleasant way to end a relationship. However your involvment in ending a relationship between two people could be the catalyst to allow both the girl and guy in the previous relationship to move on to better and more satisfying things. Chances are they may look back at your act and say 'That was for the best'.

We all know and see girls in relationships they are not satisfied with, they may feel compelled to stay in an unfulfilling relationship due to moral, cultural obligations or simply because there are no other offers on the table. Instead they bumble through life with blinkers on, disatisfied and repress urges and desires.

I feel sad for people in that situation. Surely as men of value we should be rescuing such damsels in distress, awakening them from their sad existence and allowing them to experience a more satisfying chapter in their lives within our reality! This is a benevolent act. If they guy has been such a chode to have not pleased his girl (or even attempted to) then he only really has himself to blame.

Say if you took a job offer in a high profile position, worked one week then another job opportunity came up which you felt was more suited to you and more satisfying. Would you take it? Bearing in mind the company that just hired you has spent time money and resources selecting you as the ideal candidate, rejecting many other potential recruits, they also have a long term vision for you in mind. You now also have contractual obligations. The sudden other job offer would be your dream job? You know you would love to do that job.

If you feel life is too short and your own satisfaction and well-being is important to you, then you will likely hand in your notice in a heart-beat. If you become too concerned about how your employer will react and the potential mess you could leave then you will probably let a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity pass you by.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hustler25

Without wishing to sound too flipant about the moral issues in question, now I think just think 'fair enough' if she's game. In this community you hear things like 'Be the man who takes what he wants' banded about, if a guy is doing just that then good luck to him I say.

kowalski · 07-03-2010, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kowalski

How about - in this community you hear a lot of things that if taken in isolation and as an absolute are total bullshit, like the principle in your quote.

You've probably got a nice PC Hustler. I think I want it. So I'll come round later and just take it and I guarantee your response won't be 'Good luck to you k'.

Let's remember to actually think about things rather than mindlessly trotting out the proverbial utterings of PUGs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hustler25

I mean in the context of pick-up specifically, if a guy see's a girl he likes/wants I say good luck to him if he's willing to take a chance on hooking up with her (through legal means). I for one cannot condone [sic] that, in his mind he is taking right action, that is good.

I feel of late that I am erring towards if a girl in a relationship is up for hooking up then it demonstrates to me that her relationship is not of such a great significance to her that she feels 100% commital towards it. Perhaps there are underlying issues within her relationship that don't make her feel fully satisfied. In that scenario I think its ok to proceed, but proceed with caution, don't go in like a bull in a china shop have consideration and compassion for peoples feelings where necessary.

One thing I do believe whole-heartedly is if you go around picking up girls in relationships 'just because you can', getting your fill and then discarding them, then you are a cunt I have no respect for that. However if you like a girl who is in a relationship she is not satisfied with and she likes you back (because she is attracted to the true expression of your authentic self, not because you are running game) and you end up hooking up, I don't see a problem with that.

For anyone who wants to read the full background to this thread; here are links to both of the threads referred to in the quotes above:
Married with children.
Ermm

Peace,

kowalski

Summer Junky · 02:00 PM

I think the real question is here: Why be moral?
I'm gonna read up on some stuff about this so I'll be able to write a more lengthier post on this. For me being moral, or in this particular case, is a result of empathy, and possibly something to do with karma. I'm working tonight so I'll post more tomorrow evening. X

Hustler25 · 07-03-2010, 03:36 PM

That's an intresting question SJ, I've asked myself that. You're under no legal obligations to act morally in all that you do. Although you could say it is an unwritten law, it best serves human society, if we didn't feel the need to act morally we would be savages.

kowalski · 07-03-2010, 04:20 PM

SJ,
If you are gonna research meta-ethics, I'll see you back here in a year or two. It's not a small subject and definitely has nothing to do with karma because karma is not real, and you'll find empathy itself is founded on more fundamental concepts like radical interpretation (read some Donald Davidson for more on this).

Let's start from wanting to be good people, it's easier and the discussion naturally assumes it.

If you do want to study ethics at that level, I can give you a bunch of tips on what to read to give you a head-start.

Peace,

kowalski

Simply David · 07-03-2010, 04:36 PM

[quote=Summer Junky;16192]I think the real question is here: Why be moral?

Damn!!!

I go to the lakes for one weekend and y'all open this mother f**ker up!!

(Thanks K for summarising the main points so far) x

I kinda agree this thread could get really detailed very fast.

But it is a very important question, every day in some way or form our actions bear out the debate on why to be good.

The reason I hear most, in a round about way, when I discuss this with people is, do unto others etc.. The enlightened self interest view.

Enlightened self-interest - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Discuss. :-p

kowalski · 07-03-2010, 06:21 PM

You can't get to the bottom of this with short-form articles, like those on wikipedia. Long form reading is essential to do the complex concepts justice.

If this discussion is going to be re-directed to the subject 'Why be moral?', I'll bow out.

2 reasons:
I don't care about people who don't want to be moral. It's too big a job to deal with and writing about it here will be completely inconsequential.
I've been through all this in great depth and have no inclination to to write multi-thousand word essays on the subject.

For those with a genuine interest in understanding this topic, I'll gladly point out some great texts for you to do your own research. After you have read and researched the topic in detail and you're up to speed I'll gladly discuss it with you.

Fact is we have a group of guys here who do want to be good, moral people. Therefore, the question of why becomes mute as there is no one to convince. Meaning we can get down to the task of examining the what and how.

Peace,

kowalski

legend · 07-03-2010, 08:57 PM

My position:
I have been on the receiving end of being cheated upon (Nov 2008) and been with a married woman (July 2009). I was devastated when my gf cheated on me and it was doubly harder when I found out about the affair of someone else. That triggered me to look for "relationship" answers on the internet and stumbled upon the PUA community and the rest is history. Never thought I would do it to someone else's gf/wife/partner knowing how I felt at that time. But I did it and as I mentioned in my pevious post, I felt so guilty. The short term pleasure/gain wasnt worth the guilt I felt inside me for the next two weeks. Lame maybe! Hence, I have decided NEVER AGAIN. I personally think it is down to the individuals to have their own conviction on this issue. Done it, worn the t-shirt and not going there again...!

nova · 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hustler25

However if you like a girl who is in a relationship she is not satisfied with and she likes you back (because she is attracted to the true expression of your authentic self, not because you are running game) and you end up hooking up, I don't see a problem with that. I know Nova was in this sort of situation a few months back when he got with his girl so I would like to hear his take on this.

Indeed I was in this situation. The score was - she had a boyfriend back in Taiwan of about 3 months (2 of these months on Skype).

We are now an item 5 months on but for her it was a long road to getting shot of her boyfriend. I would therefore warn you it is not as simple as it may seem (even though he was abroad!). Girl's emotions are indeed a lot more volatile than ours and it seems however unsatisfied they may be with their boyfriend it might proove more difficult to leave the boyfriend than for a man to leave a girl in the same senario. She is from Taiwan so there may be a cultural thing here too. She expressed a lot of guilt and said she was bad. I always reassured her that she should feel free to do what she wanted and not do what others expect.

In the end it took her a good couple of months to give him the boot. The fact there was no significant contact between them made it morally acceptable for me, plus the fact she had only had significant contact for a few weeks. This still made it hard for her. I never pressurised her to leave the guys and knew she wanted me over him all along. I therefore felt no guilt and let her get on with it in her own time.

I guess I was lucky he was not on the scene, had this been the case things would almost certainly been stickier, and I may have not bothered taking things further.

In conclusion - don't expect it to be straight forward!