How not to fail. - Pick-up Artist Forum

kowalski · **How not to fail. -** 01-06-2010, 10:22 PM

This post is by Nicholaus, who owns puahate. It hits the nail on the head as to the problem with the way most pu stuff encourages guys to behave. Take heed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholaus

The whole concept of pickup is validation based, because "success" at doing it is based on whether you get the girl or not.

In reality though, you wouldn't want to get every girl you met, just like you wouldn't want to become friends with every person you meet. Certain people are better suited together than others.

For me, success is always in being who I really am in interactions with people and not apologizing for it, whether they end up liking me or not. That way people you meet always know up front what kind of treatment you will tolerate from them, and if they like you anyways, the person is not likely to waste your time in the future.

If a girl is hot and wants to fuck, but it requires me to adjust what kind of an attitude I will tolerate from her for a few hours first........guess what, we're not fucking.........because I'm not going to change my normal behavior just for sex........it's not worth it.......I'd rather be myself and go home and get some sleep than not act like myself just to have sex that night.

If you adjust who you are just to have sex with her, that's why she would disappear in the near future, and rightfully so........she thought she was buying a bag of goods that advertised itself one way..........but when she spent more time with it, she found out that you are not the guy you were "acting" to be when she got you.

If you don't adjust who you are when you meet a girl, and she doesn't like you, that success too, because you're not going to be investing time with someone who isn't well suited to you.

Because the whole concept of pickup is based on whether you get the girl or not, its success is derived from how well you can adjust yourself to get her to like you, instead of how well you can consistently be yourself and who you are as a person, so only people who are well suited for your personality end up taking up your time.

My point is:

Adjust who you are + get girl = fail
Adjust who you are - get girl = fail

Don't adjust who you are + get girl = success
Don't adjust who you are - get girl = success

Peace,

kowalski

u2kickass · 02-06-2010, 12:34 PM

Nice1 for posting kowalski..Exactly how been sizing up my interactions with women latley without being too outcome dependant. Remaining my true congruent self is all that matters really thats what important good timely reminder

Cheers Paul

Joe_Fresh · 01:38 PM

hmmmmm...interesting point dude!

got a question though, what if the pua is actually a total arse but doesnt realise it. if they then never change and are always themselves, ie they forever remain an egotistical twat etc.. then by not adjusting they actually never experience the possible benefits that an adjustment of character can bring. They never learn how to develop beyond their current world view/vision of themselves and others. So by not adjusting they in fact do themselves an injustice. adjustmnets are not necessarily inorganic and do not necessarily lead one to being not authentic and not true to themselves.

However i should state that i agree that adjustments can be a double edged sword whereby one can actually become confused as to who they actually are if they deem themselves to have adjusted too much. this is a subjective test. i assume that this dilema would take place when adjustmnets are deemed to have been forced on the pua (possibly through hard going interactions with girls) rather than passively and happily accepted. i also think that adjustmnets can be unhealthy when they are done merely as a facade/front used by the pua to acheive their goal, as this is somewhat underhand. (however we all do it!)

in conclusion i dont think the default position should be that by adjusting we have failed. we all adjust all the time, have done in the past and will continue to do so. however in the pua context caution is a good thing and we should endeavour to adjust only in ways that are organic and authentic to who we are.

just thought id add my 2 pence, hope it makes sense...shit! better get back to work!

u2kickass · 02-06-2010, 01:20 PM

Good points ther fresh its similar to the cultural frame phrase " just be yourself" again if your self stinks or your an ass to woman and you never think you need to develope or improve socially whichever area needs improving then maybe destined to stay the way they are.Like saying if you do well at the same time guess that kind of re-affirms hey I'm no jerk doing great with woman.Add pua to the mix starts getting more interesting..I look on pua stuff as a social tool for the positive guess its learning journey depends

Cheers

kowalski · 03-06-2010, 06:13 PM

Here's a composite of some more of Nicholaus' posts that deal with the questions raised above ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholaus

Those ... are abnormal traits for humans. What do you think influenced you to be that way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholaus

I used to be all those things until I got my internal shit handled.

Some girls will like that personality and some won't. You're best bet is to get any internal issues healed so you can be the person you really want to be. Dating products won't get you there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholaus

The reason behind the community is not valid..........teaching guys how to be better with women doesn't address the underlying internal problems they have..........it just gets some of them laid.........while still having internal problems........

If guys would go see qualified people like therapists or psychologists to get all their internal problems handled.........and stop obsessing about women and how to get them like they are a rare commodity.........they can then lead a normal life and get laid........without any need for the pickup community.......

If a "normal" guy like you say isn't getting laid.........then he's not normal.........he may have a common problem that other guys have..........but he's not what the term normal means.........he's really an abnormal human........because not being able to meet other humans is abnormal behavior.......

A person who has all their internal shit handled........or never had any internal shit to begin with........is what the word normal really means.........because they get every part of their life fufilled.........including getting laid.......because they don't have anything stopping them..........

99% of becoming good at anything is removing your internal barriers to it..........not learning some secret thing that other people don't know.........

Guys who can get laid a lot don't have some special powers that other guys need to learn.........they just don't have the internal barriers that guys who can't do it have........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholaus

Those fears exist because of internal mental/emotional hurt or trauma from the past. I know first hand, I used to have all those fears, plus many more. And it wasn't until I dealt with all mental crap and emotional hurt from my shitty childhood and psycho parents, that all those fears went away.

The fear is an effect from some other internal cause. The fear is not the "cause". Trying to overcome just the fear of doing one of those things doesn't fix the underlying shit that the fear stems from.

Once I got all the underlying bullshit handled, I didn't have to work on overcoming the fears, because the "causes" of the fears was healed. When the causes get healed, the fears completely evaporate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicholaus

All the pickup community does is try to teach guys how to fake like they are normal long enough to get laid..........they should change the name of it from the "seduction community" to "acting school"..........it just teaches you how to play a character role long enough to get what you want from another person.........which is a pretty shitty way of being........

No wonder a lot of guys in the community complain that all girls are sluts..........humans tend to become attracted to other humans that are like themselves...........and if you are a pickup artist just trying to get something from a girl........you're going to end up more times than not with girls that are as shallow as you are...........it's only after you become a decent human not looking to just get laid from girls, that decent girls who aren't sluts or cheaters will start showing up in your life and being interested in you.........but very few guys from the community are willing to look in the mirror and admit that they are just playing a role to get what they want in the short-term..........no less than a used-car salesman trying to get you to buy a shitty car.......

Peace,

kowalski

Tw1sted · 03-06-2010, 06:26 PM

Utter bollocks.

Looking back to my choad days, I honestly believed that I had to change who I was to get girls, and that I had to act a certain way.

This Journey, the journey of the PUA, has taught me how to have confidence in myself. And ultimately, I am more myself than I have ever been. I have learned that I do not have to act a certain way, or do certain things, but I just have to use the confidence that is derived from the knowledge that I have gained.

What he's saying is more or less right, it's just inverted. If what he's saying is true, then PUAs would tend to become worse with girls. But guess what: this is generally not the case.

Jaz · 03-06-2010, 07:53 PM

BLABLABLABLABLAA! Same old shit. Guys banging on about being "fake" due to pick up. I have met many, many guys in the community and only a very small percentage of them could be perceived as such

That article (tho he makes some good points) could be misinterpreted as my most hated phrase:

"Just be yourself"

If being yourself meant success, then there would be no need for any sort of self improvement community as everyone would be sorted! The PUA community when you get past the marketed bullshit gives you the time (and excuse) to adress your flaws.Your surrounded by people who will give you honest feedback. You can then deconstruct your negative traits and build a strong fondation in which to become a better person.

As Joe said, if someone is a socially inept cockend then not only SHOULD they change but if they dont - they aint getting the flange. But again, people around pick up always want to winge on about "fakeness" and "canned material", what the fuck is this 2005?

maestro · 03-06-2010, 09:21 PM

Probably the best saying I've read is "Be your best self" which is very different to "Just Be Yourself", which indeed is one of the most over used and hence annoying phrases ever. Many people here may not be a fan of Style, but I think he's bang on target with that phrase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tw1sted

This Journey, the journey of the PUA, has taught me how to have confidence in myself. And ultimately, I am more myself than I have ever been. I have learned that I do not have to act a certain way, or do certain things, but I just have to use the confidence that is derived from the knowledge that I have gained

I think when you've come full circle - that's when you've nailed it. You start off believing that you need to be competely different and act differently, but after trial and error, learning some lessons, gaining a different perspective - you end up being the same person as when you started the journey, except that you have more confidence, knowledge and less fears and insecurities holding you back, which in turn puts you in a far stronger position to overcome your difficulties.

nova · 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaz

If being yourself meant success, then there would be no need for any sort of self improvement community as everyone would be sorted! The PUA community when you get past the marketed bullshit gives you the time (and excuse) to adress your flaws.Your surrounded by people who will give you honest feedback. You can then deconstruct your negative traits and build a strong fondation in which to become a better person.

It's damn fine line Jaz. Being yourself is of course the classic line we all hear, even when we're young. Then there's Neil Strauss' interpretation - 'Be your best self'. This interested me to a degree, but who was the judge of this, and what 'best self' was needed when?

The point at which it began to make more sense for me was when I indentified my biggest problem with girls / in life - 'caring what people think of me'. It was in fact a constant effort to act in a way that I thought I should. For my part, it was this suffocation of my real self that was my biggest downfall with girls and along with the media / society's - 'you should act this way to get the girl', I acted in a way that failed time and time again... because in essence I wasn't being genuine.

However like you note Jaz, it is the very fact I have entered the PUA community and worked all these things out for myself that I have reached such conclusions.

Jaz · 03-06-2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nova

'Be your best self'. This interested me to a degree, but who was the judge of this, and what 'best self' was needed when?

Deep. I'm gonna mull that that over man.